Self-Funding Your Start-Up vs. VC Investment with Dan Roberge.

Which is better? Self-funding your startup or going for VC investment? Is it better to maintain the freedom as the financier of your business or sacrifice it for the benefit of greater capital from investors? In this episode, we host Dan Roberge as he unpacks self-funding and VC investment pros and cons. Dan Roberge is a results-driven President and CEO of Maintenance Care with a key focus on sales, marketing, and product development. His extensive experience building a company from the ground up, including establishing budgets, marketing image and strategy, business culture, sales processes, support protocols, and product development tailored to industry needs, makes him a great startup resource.

Dan’s career background: His passion for the creative side of things originated from his academic background in film. He started with marketing for client companies before he established his own company with his wife. Dan started as the marketing person for their startup before they could bring on board a team as the company scaled. 

When did he have the epiphany to start his own business: He first founded a wedding video company upon graduating from film school. With his spouse as a partner, they then launched a small advertising company from his long-held desire to be a founder. Due to cash flow challenges associated with a self-funded startup, he would seek employment in the insurance industry as a marketer. (Having your own business allows you to see the impact of your work directly).

Did his startup use self-funding or VC investment: Dan explains that their startup utilized the self-funding option instead of VC investment. They yearned for freedom from taking charge of their business establishment. However, Dan reckons that the self-funding model presented often hits its peak. As such, the founders must make tough decisions to adopt the VC investment model. (The funding path you choose depends on your ultimate goal).

Demerits of self-funding your startup: Dan reveals that cash flow problems with the self-funding model forced them to mortgage their house up to three times. In this regard, he risked the equity he had built for his house to grow his maintenance care startup. Although they started their company in 2003, Dan reveals that the business did not register any organic income for the next 5 years. This was because of the initial low adoption of computers in the maintenance industry. However, the founder’s persistence in him saw him continue running the company until the marketplace was ideal for business. (When self-funded, you have to risk everything and be aware that you could lose everything at any moment).

The marketing budget for his startup: When following the self-funding model, you must undertake great budgeting to avoid burning money. They utilized the monthly membership payment method for their software service offering, earning 1200 per customer. However, their customer acquisition cost was high because they would not earn from a new customer until after year 1. They pre-spend money on the target income, underscoring the risky nature of the self-funding approach for a startup. In addition, they did not take a salary from the startup in the early days in order to maintain the cash flow.

What is the right to hire when self-funding: Dan says they initially hired on a need basis. This is because the 3 people at the company mainly handled the core processes of the company. As the business scaled, they hired before a need arose to avoid being negatively affected by employee turnover. This helps to keep reasonable the cost of orienting new employees with the tasks of the business. He sums it up that the cost of doing business often reduces with pre-hiring.

Current main budgetary areas for his business: They are facing stiff competition from directory listing that has replaced SEO. As such, their software company is towards SEO which accounts for the highest amount of organic leads and thus more closed sales. They consistently produce content for the target audience, starting with a freemium model and only charging when they become paying customers.

His perspective about VC investment: Dan reveals that he receives between 10-20 offers for VC investment at his company each day. This is especially due to the fact that this is among the few maintenance software companies in the market still under private ownership. In Canada, the traction of his company to venture capital is due to the company being the industry leader in maintenance software for the senior care industry. Ideally, VC investment seeks to invest in a company with a short-term exit strategy. In this regard, Dan advises that a founder should settle after attracting VC investment; rather, you should leverage their capital to grow the company further so as to appeal to even more lucrative financial partners. Dan observes that venture capitalists come in different formats, with some as micromanagers while others are less hands-on. Self-funding offers a different route to VC investment because of the freedom and autonomy it offers the business owner. (The value proposition should be to the effect that after getting more lucrative investors, the business owner would get greater value from the deal).

Tips for founders in dealing with VC investment: Dan advises that a founder should practice strategic transparency with venture capitalists. Therefore, You should be open to sharing all aspects of your business to appeal to the investors. The interest of the VCs is often in the passion and potential of the business owner rather than replicating their product or service. However, our guest expert warns that you should overlook their attempt to underplay the valuation of your business because it is always a negotiating tact.

Time Codes

• (0:08) Introduction of today’s topic and guest expert
• (0:28) Dan’s career background
• (01:58) When did he have the epiphany to start his own business
• (03:51) Did his startup use self-funding or VC investment
• (05:08) Demerits of self-funding your startup
• (07:29) Marketing budget for his startup
• (09:28) The right to hire when self-funding
• (12:04) Current main budgetary areas for his business
• (16:57) His perspective on VC investment
• (21:34) Tips for founders in dealing with VC investment:
• (23:24) Dan’s contact information
• (24:10) Dan’s choice of brand ambassador

Transcription

[00:00:03.550] – Intro

You’re listening to the Merged Marketing podcast with me, Jason Hunt. The mission with this show is to discuss all things marketing, sales, and mindset. It’s my hope for entrepreneurs like you to get the most from your efforts so that you can focus on what you do best.Let’s go. self-funding results-driven talkingIn.Episode 187.Of the merged Marketing podcast, we’re.self-fundingresults-drivenTalking about selffunding your startup versus VC investment. My guest on today’s show is Dan Roberg. Dan is a results driven president and CEO of Maintenance Care with a key focus on sales, marketing and product development. His extensive experience in building a company from the ground up, including establishing budgets, marketing image, and strategy, business culture, sales processes, support protocols and development of a product tailored to industry needs, makes him a great resource for startups and an excellent guest for today’s episode. We not just talk about self funding your startup and VC investment, we also talk about the marketing aspect of it and how much you should be investing in your marketing as a startup. Without further ado, let’s kick into my chat with Dan.

 

[00:01:07.680] – Jason

Dan, welcome to the show.

 

[00:01:09.050] – Dan

Thank you for having me.

 

[00:01:10.650] – Jason

Definitely. So, Dan, maybe you can start us off, kick us off by telling us a bit of your background that got you to where you are today.

 

[00:01:17.050] – Dan

Yeah, absolutely. I started in something totally different. I studied film school stuff in university and I was going to be a filmmaker. But I guess the thing that attracted me to film is still the thing that I liked in our business, which is this concept of creating, just creating new things. That led me to be getting jobs in marketing, which then led me to think, you know what? We want to have our own business and let’s just create something that we have a say in what goes on. I did all the marketing for our company as we grew and lucky enough now have to have a team works and does that. That entire need for creating and being independent and doing new things was basically the starting Genesis of wanting to have my own company. Yeah, pretty cool.

 

[00:01:58.270] – Jason

To figure out what you really like and really hone in and drive deep on it. Originally in a previous life, I wanted to be a music video director, so I actually was going to go to University in Carlten in Ottawa to study film studies, but went a different path and went the sports path at one point. But it all came back full circle because obviously as a part of a marketing agency video is super important. It’s awesome. When did you have that epiphany to decide that this is the direction you want to go?

 

[00:02:24.670] – Dan

Yeah, it’s good thing you didn’t do music videos in a sense because that’s not really happening anymore. But TV is gone, but there are much music. For us, I say us because my wife and I started the company together. But for me specifically, I just always had a desire to do my own business. Right out of film school, I started a wedding video company. Then again, my wife was with me helping out, and we were every Saturday going, doing weddings and editing them. That was back in the day where we were editing on tape. It wasn’t even digital. So it was quite an elaborate process to do, but I quickly got tired of the bright Zillow and so on. So it moved into a different type of business where I started a small advertising company and everything always led to just me wanting to be on my own. But it was tough to make a living and sustain as you’re starting out. I eventually went the corporate route and got a job with an insurance company and was in marketing. But that desire to have my own business was always there. I think I saw that from probably my dad had that in his life for as long as he was working.

 

[00:03:25.820] – Dan

So I think I just was always drawn to that type of setup. Where you’re getting the benefit of the work that you put in. And I think that was always the utilitarian side of me is I needed to see some results. Sometimes when you work for a big company, you don’t really see the outcome. You don’t always see where that’s going to lead. Whereas this is direct impact on what you do impacts directly on the success.

 

[00:03:46.660] – Jason

Definitely. And that’s a great segue to the next question, which is talking about self funding your startup versus VC investment. Now, in your case, was it self funded or VC investment?

 

[00:03:55.770] – Dan

So we were self funded. I think our first mission statement when we started was something like freedom from what used to be or something like that, very generic. But the concept was that we just wanted freedom. We didn’t want to have to work for anybody else and have our vision be motivated by somebody else’s interest, which was money, obviously. And it was quite a challenge. And I’m happy to explore that a little bit because the concept of funding your own business, it seems like, oh, well, I’m going to have full independence. But at the same time, you reach certain milestones where you have to cross those barriers to make a decision as whether or not you’re going to keep going because it’s not as always as simple as just, yeah, I can just support myself and on because you actually have business needs that need to be addressed. And if you don’t address them, if you don’t take that chance, your business could retract back into not growing ever. And so those are very difficult decisions you can make either way. I think the path that you chose depends on what your ultimate goal was.

 

[00:04:51.440] – Dan

And for us, it was freedom, right? And that was our goal.

 

[00:04:54.220] – Jason

So let’s talk about some of those. Obviously, the pro is being freedom, but what are some of the cons of being self funded?

 

[00:05:00.220] – Dan

We had to mortgage our house three times, and every time we thought we’d lose it. That was a house that we paid for from the work that I did working in a corporate environment. It wasn’t money that came to me easily. Unlike people might always think, oh, you can start and self fund your business because you have money. I went out, got a job, I build equity in my house and then put that equity at risk to grow my business.

 

[00:05:22.680] – Jason

That was the.

 

[00:05:23.080] – Speaker 3

Wedding business?

 

[00:05:23.910] – Dan

Yes. The wedding business or the insurance company job that I had for marketing and all of those things I did to earn income in the past, then we put it all into this maintenance care business, which is the business we’re doing now, which is a software company. That was back in 2003 we started. We’ve been doing that since 2003. The Corporation is 2006, but we didn’t get a sale for the first five to six years. That’s how tough the business was for us back then. And we just kept with it. But every time, it was hard. The cash flow is so difficult. And until you become cash flow positive on organic income that your business is bringing in, you’re really risking everything that you’re putting into it. And when you’re competing, that’s the other part that gets forgotten. You’re competing with other software that if you don’t really grow fast enough, those other software companies are going to invest that money because they’ve got VC investors, let’s say. They’re going to swallow up the marketplace and you’ll never have a chance. And especially in this industry that we were in, early on, it was maintenance software.

 

[00:06:22.470] – Dan

That’s what maintenance care is. And so that software wasn’t really the adoption rate of maintenance people using computers wasn’t there yet, which explains why we didn’t get a sale the first four or five years, among other things. But then once people started to adopt to the idea that maintenance people need computers too, everybody was jumping on that marketplace, so we had to be ready. And luckily at that point, we already had our footing. But that’s definitely a negative. You risk everything and you have to be very well aware of that and you could lose it all.

 

[00:06:51.550] – Jason

Yeah, definitely. And I think the big challenge, especially, and you just hit on some very important points there, is dealing with the big dogs that have the big budgets to invest into marketing. And so when you are self funded, you need to obviously spend your budget in the right places. So when it comes down to marketing, how much were you spending on the marketing side of it to grow your business?

 

[00:07:14.580] – Dan

Yeah, that’s absolutely actually, that’s really interesting. What we were doing, because we’re a software as a service, so it’s a monthly membership that people pay us. Let’s say they paid $100 a month and they would stay with us. Obviously, we would look ahead because we’re not making money off the customer the first year. We’re making $1,200 off the customer. Our acquisition cost for that customer was way higher than that. So we needed the customer to stay two, three years for us to start to make money. And if you think about software as a service in 2003, 2006, there was no such thing, hardly. Salesforce was starting out and that was one of the only ones that was doing it. But everybody else was, you bought a CD, you installed it and that’s it. So the concept of software as a service, we had to convince them on that idea. But once they were a customer, what we would do on our spend, on our marketing spend is we would say, okay, we anticipate getting, let’s say, at the early years, $60,000 worth of new business for the year. So let’s spend that 60,000 before we even have it.

 

[00:08:09.530] – Dan

And let’s hope that we get to that point where we can achieve that. So we were always spending ahead of time. And then that grew because now we wanted to grow by 100,000 and we wanted to grow by 200,000. So we were putting more and more money in, seeing the market grow and us putting more and more money in every time more of a risk, like I said, re mortgaging our houses and such. So the funding of it was all about the hope and the focus on customer acquisition. And that’s where we put all our money. We weren’t paying ourselves. We were just trying to live as frugally as we could.

 

[00:08:40.710] – Jason

Now, the hiring process, and this has always been debate in our own business, do you hire when there’s a need? Do you hire in advance of the need?

 

[00:08:48.880] – Dan

So I think for us, that’s changed through the years. Initially, we only hired when we had the need. We have three partners in our companies. It was myself who did sales and marketing. My wife did operations and finance, and we had a third partner who did developing. So we were lucky that those core jobs that we needed within our business ownership group were taken care of and we were willing to put in the time. So if you don’t have that, if you don’t have those core groups and you need to hire, then yeah, that’s where you’re going to focus early on. Now, as time has gone on, now we’re anticipating more and we’re also looking at obviously cost of replacing employees, let’s say a salesperson, you’re going to see that person’s productivity increase through time. Let’s say it takes 2-3, but that person to start getting sales. And then if they only last with your company a year, you’re starting that process again next year. So now we’re trying to backfill always and get those jobs pre prepared because we’ve learned what the turnover is for the team and we always want the new people to be ready if they are needed.

 

[00:09:51.460] – Dan

That’s changed through the years.

 

[00:09:53.270] – Jason

That’s a good point. You got to factor in obviously training time, which can be costly for a company. We historically, we would have a plan to spend X amount on a marketing budget in anticipation of getting sales and closing sales. So we would always hire historically before the need. But it’s a massive risk when you do it that way. And we have come out on months on the negative because staff is not trained properly and it’s tough to anticipate how quickly it’s going to take to train staff, turnover. There’s lots of question marks with that, right?

 

[00:10:24.380] – Dan

Absolutely. And the thing is a marketing company relies on people more than, let’s say, our software because it’s self running and we need support in sales, but the software just runs by itself.

 

[00:10:34.670] – Jason

My.

 

[00:10:34.940] – Dan

Developer would probably disagree with me on that side. Basically, it just runs. Whereas on a marketing team, you need the minds and the skills of people. You need to pre train them, pre anticipate those changes, and it is quite a risk. That’s where we are now too. We are doing that type of process for hiring ahead of time. When you really look at the investment over the course of time, it’s less expensive than just hiring when you wait for somebody, but then you have downtime and such.

 

[00:11:01.570] – Speaker 3

Who’s doing your social media? Is anybody doing your social media? Why aren’t we doing your social media?

 

[00:11:08.520] – Jason

Since 2016.

 

[00:11:10.010] – Speaker 3

My agency has been managing communities, creating content, and managing our clients’ social media platforms to keep them top of mind with their customers along with their prospects. Social media is probably somewhere on your priority list as a busy business owner, but it’s never going to be near the top. For us at Merged Media, we ensure your social media is at the top of our list, making sure you’re staying top of mind with those clients and prospects. If you want a creative and professional agency working on your social media, then go on over to merged. Ca and book a call today. That’s M E R GED CA.

 

[00:11:45.980] – Jason

Where are you investing your marketing budget now in 2023? Where a lot of your marketing budget? Which areas? Which platforms? Where are you spending it?

 

[00:11:55.950] – Dan

Yeah. So we were early adopters of HubSpot back in 2000 and 5, 6 or so. Sorry, 2015, not 20, 10 years later. But basically, we used a lot of inbound marketing strategy, SEO, obviously. The landscape has changed considerably now. So what we saw is the emergence of what we call directory listings. So we’re not only competing with other software companies like ours, but what we’re competing with is these directory listings that are actually paying directories. They pose themselves as being like, Here’s the top 10 best software, and by rating of what people say. But really, it’s not. You’re paying for that top rating. And Google ads isn’t as relevant as it used to be. It’s changing. It’s still there, but it’s not as relevant compared to these directory listings, which is replaced SEO. Now, SEO is probably still our number one. And when I say SEO, I mean, our website and our content that we produce brings in the most amount of organic leads that allow us to close more sales. That’s still number one. But definitely the directory listings has been a challenge. I’m not a big fan of them and the fact that we’re competing and paying double, but it is a.

 

[00:13:05.520] – Jason

Big part of what we do. It’s the way it goes. A lot of those awards people are paying for them, which it just.

 

[00:13:10.230] – Dan

Feels kicky. Yeah, exactly. It’s what it does.

 

[00:13:12.770] – Jason

But that’s interesting. Yeah, SEO, I think it is obviously always going to be a player because I find the savvy consumers are the ones that are scrolling past those ads and going to that organic listing to get the result they’re looking for, especially when you’re in a SaaS space where a lot of your clients are savvy.

 

[00:13:27.200] – Dan

Google.

 

[00:13:28.000] – Jason

Ads, on the other hand, I think you’re absolutely right. I think with Google advertising, a lot of people that are clicking those ads, they’re definitely shopping around and looking for the best deal. So you do deal, I think, in a lot of cases, at least in our case, a lot of tire kickers. So that’s just comparing those two platforms. It’s very interesting. But it’s nice to have really strong SEO. You can constantly rely on that organic traffic on a monthly basis, which is encouraging to see, right?

 

[00:13:53.560] – Dan

Absolutely. We try to put out content all the time, whether it’s these types of interviews or whether it’s other videos, educational videos. The medium has changed now. It’s very much audio and video as opposed to just used to be an infographic or eBook or something like that, which we still put out content. But the useful stuff is just information that we put on our YouTube and people find us that way. What we’ve done this is a little bit of a… Because what you said is exactly right. Google ads really leads to a lot of tire kickers and just people that aren’t as serious who just want free. So what we did is build a free version of our software and we direct all of our Google ads to the free version. And so that allows for us to get still that value from something, even though people would think you’re paying for an ad that’s taking them to a free product, that they’re not giving you any income, but we get to nurture them as far as once they are in the free version. So offering maybe a lower level, low cost or free item that you can target to that audience on the paid side allows you to still get some value in the long run from that marketing initiative.

 

[00:14:54.430] – Jason

Trip wires, super important definitely to get somebody into your ecosystem and start giving yourself an opportunity to build your trust with that lead before they make the commitment to become a full fledged client. I think that’s important. I think that’s where marketing is trending more so in the last couple of years is putting that consumer in a position where they are making the decision and not being pushed into a decision. Exactly what you’re doing there is offering the free trial, just giving them a little taste and seeing if they think your product is a good fit for them.

 

[00:15:26.710] – Dan

Somebody once said to me, you don’t want to be the guy at the party who’s just always talking about themselves. You want to offer, you want to listen, you want to offer stuff that they find valuable, and then they’ll be glad to listen to you and take on whatever you have. I think that’s definitely the strategy. I think it works. I think people don’t want to be sold to a used car salesperson now. They don’t want to be able to go, Just buy this and try to be tricked into something. We have no long term contracts on our software. And like I said, we make money if they last more than one year. So it really is important that we nurture them. They get to know us and they start to trust us. And then we’re able to sell them something that they’re going to stay with long term.

 

[00:16:03.730] – Jason

Awesome. We started this conversation talking about startup versus VC investment. Let’s circle back to that for a second, Dan, and talk a bit about VC investment. Tell us a bit about your experience with VC investment.

 

[00:16:15.160] – Dan

I get like maybe 10 to 20 requests per day on VC investments who want to invest in our company. I think we’re one of the only few left that are still owned at this size of a company that are still owned privately. I think we’re a pretty desirable target for a lot of people, especially in Canada. We are the number one maintenance software for the senior care industry, for example, which is a big industry. And so it’s really a really good investment for venture capitalists. So what they’re looking to do in essence is they’re trying to invest in your company but also have probably a short term exit plan out of your company. And sometimes it’s a bit longer depending on the investor. But what they’re wanting to do is market your company so that you get to a point where they can get another investor to come in and pay sometimes 10 times more than they paid you originally. So every formula is different but ultimately you’re not really as a business owner, what you’re using is the capital to market your company and to grow your company. You’re not going to be pocketing this money and going to buy a car.

 

[00:17:17.820] – Dan

You’re going to be using that money to make the company look more desirable. Usually, the value proposition for the business owner is that once we do get that second investor to come in and pay 10 times more, you’re going to get a bigger chunk of that back end deal later on. So it’s important to understand that you’re not people that go, I want to go get an investor and then I’ve made it. It’s actually just the beginning. And then that also lends itself to where those, depending on the investor, the business financial partner that you choose, some are more hands on, some they have so many portfolios, they don’t really care, they just want to maintain. Those are good if you want to maintain your independence, but the more personalized ones, they’re going to be involved. They might even be the president and displace you and say, We want to run this company, and yours is going to be a consultant. Those are things you have to consider. Ultimately, they want your passion because you’re the one who created the company. You’ve got that expertise and the passion they want to keep you. But ultimately, their goal is to repackage you and sell you again.

 

[00:18:16.680] – Dan

I’ve seen companies go through five, six rounds. The first time, they get $6 million. Then the second time, they get $20 million. Then they get $80 million. Then the next investor just sees a plan to repackage and resell. But the original business owner by the end might own 1 %. Who knows how far down that goes? But it’s not that they’re not going to make money. It’s just that it’s a different goal in the end. Our goal was, like I said, freedom. So we wanted to grow and make decisions that affected our customers and not so much just the money that came in.

 

[00:18:50.600] – Jason

What do you find are some of the big opportunities that those initial investors see when they look at your company? They’re looking at it and being like, Okay, the P&L is not looking great, but I do see some glaring opportunities here. What are those opportunities?

 

[00:19:04.830] – Dan

I would think market advantage. What market are you in? What customer base do you have already? The talent of your company, so the people that are there. It’s hard to find people, so they’re buying the people as well. People often think, We’ll get an investor and they’ll fire everybody. That can happen if you have a merger and there’s already a company like yours in the portfolio and they already have talented people, but they’re also going to keep the talented people on your team. Typically, those are the things they’re buying. They’re market advantage and talent. The market advantage is a big one because they probably have peripheral products that they can cross sell. There’s also a bunch of tax advantages for them to buy software companies in general, like for us, it’s software because the IP, which is the technology itself, is 100 % tax deductible that you’re purchase. If the value is in the software itself, they get more tax deductions that way. But also just the idea that they’re in a marketplace and now they can sell this other product to that same marketplace. You’re buying that. That’s like a marketing. That’s a marketing way for them to sell another product.

 

[00:20:05.050] – Jason

Brilliant. Okay, one last question about this topic. Is there any tips you can give in terms of a small business or a business startup negotiating with VCs? How does that whole process look and what advice can you give to entrepreneurs that are having those conversations?

 

[00:20:23.190] – Dan

I think you got to be prepared to share everything and that’s something mentally you have to go into first. A lot of times I see these early negotiations where we’ve got this technology and we don’t want to tell you exactly what it is and they’re very protected, but that investor is not interested in stealing your idea. That’s not what business they’re in. Obviously, you get a reputable company and just get somebody who just happened to meet in the street, but you get somebody, a reputable company, they’re not interested in replicating your product. They’re interested in you and your team and the concept of your company. So be prepared to share everything, but do it in a strategic way. I would always maintain that whatever you think is the value of your company is probably 10 times more than it is for them, but they’ll never let on to that. When we watch shark tank or all these shows where they go, Your valuation is not good enough, and so on. They’re negotiating from that position and they have all the power and they can say whatever they want. But the reality is, no matter what logic they apply to diminishing the value of your company, they’re still talking to you.

 

[00:21:26.290] – Dan

So ultimately, I would maintain what you think is the value because they’re going to, like I said, repackage this up and make twice as much anyways, or find another way to make money off of you. They’ve got very creative ways. So don’t take their advice. Stay steady in your perception of what your value is. And I think that’s probably the best thing to do ongoing.

 

[00:21:45.330] – Jason

Awesome. Dan, this has been great. If our audience has any questions for you or they want to learn more about Maintenance Care, how can they go about that?

 

[00:21:52.000] – Dan

Yeah, you can do info@maintancecare. Com and call us anytime. Maintenancecare. Com and our YouTube channel is the best place to get information. Any of our team is available all the time. They can call us. They can go on our website, fill out a form or request for information, and we’ll get in touch with you.

 

[00:22:08.490] – Jason

Dan, you on the socials at all?

 

[00:22:10.330] – Dan

Absolutely, yeah. I’m on LinkedIn and anybody can also connect with me on LinkedIn, Dan Roberg. And then also on Twitter under Maintenance Care and Facebook, obviously under Maintenance Care as well.

 

[00:22:21.290] – Jason

Awesome. Dan, we end every episode with the same question. That question is this, if you can choose one person dead or alive to represent Maintenance Care, who would it be and why?

 

[00:22:30.470] – Dan

All right. Why not go with the top person right now, Elon Musk? Obviously, that’s the easy answer. Probably it’s not. But here’s the funny story about that. I was asked this question about maybe 10 years ago and I said Elon Musk back then. So I’m consistent even before he was at the top of his game here. So it was.

 

[00:22:49.100] – Jason

Right when the… You could buy in back then.

 

[00:22:51.120] – Dan

Yeah. Probably much.

 

[00:22:54.140] – Jason

More affordable back then.

 

[00:22:55.610] – Dan

That’s right.

 

[00:22:57.750] – Jason

Awesome. Dan, thanks for your time.

 

[00:22:59.780] – Dan

Thanks for excellent. Thank you. Good talking to you.

 

[00:23:02.080] – Speaker 3

Real quick, guys. If you are active on Instagram or TikTok, I encourage you to go on over and give my personal profile a follow @jhunt official, J AY HUNT, OFF, ICI, A, L. Over there on Instagram and TikTok, I’m posting my favorite highlights from the Merged Marketing podcast, along with some of the highlights from my speaking engagements overseas as well as locally. Ton of value. Go on over and check it out @jhunofficial. I’d like to thank you for listening to the Merged Marketing podcast and I invite you to subscribe so you never miss an episode of the Merged Marketing podcast. One of the best ways to do that is to add us to your Instagram @mergedmedia. M E R GED MEDIA. Go on over there, give Merged Media follow and subscribe and never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. We’ll talk to you soon.

Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please check out our previous episode on Why business owners should trust their instincts with digital media with Edward Nugent.